will american breeders ever start breeding for a more well rounded GSD? - Page 5

A straight back causes break down?

Now, see? There's something I disagree with. The wolf has a straight back, and often travels over 40 miles a day.

Who says the curved back and angulated rear is correct? Where's the proof that it's actually a benefit to the dog?

THERE ISN'T ANY!  Someone in power just decided that it was better, or looked better.

If you follow the history of just about any breed of purebred dog, you will see these 'fads' come and go.

I, too, wish the breed standard was more explicit. It would prevent some of these extremes. However, sometimes the fad catches on so strongly that the breed standard gets rewritten, as happened with the American show line GSD. It USED to call for a 'level' back!

What I would like to see for the American dogs:

Temperament testing being mandatory, to make sure the dog has a sound mind.
A performance title being mandatory, to show the dog is capable of doing more than trotting around the ring. It would be even better if two titles were required, one for obedience, and one that tested the dog's physical capabilities.

I am sick to death of the way things are now. The vast majority of GSDs you see in the performance venues are the ones that will never make it in the show ring!  And in my way of thinking, yes, that makes the breed UNBALANCED!

And in case you think I am bashing the breed, no, this is not the breed's fault, it's the BREEDERS who need to be held responsible!  I'd like to see the day when a CDX title meant every bit as much as a conformation championship, or BIS ribbon.

Sunsilver,

Regarding wolves. I've watched many times arctic white wolves traveling. Not only do they put in a lot of miles but it's amazing the speed at which they travel. Most of our dogs would have to gallop to keep up.

Here's what happens to a dog with a straight back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zVdnWFuK-eg

Koach,

I watched all of your agility videos, nice work.

Gustav, it´s not about truth or any answers, it´s about Eddy asking THE SAME QUESTIONS again and again - but he/she doesn´t care about answers.
As soon as a person does have an opinion  based on nothing than hearsay and is not willing to listen, is not willing to answer, is not willing to learn, every debate becomes useless.
For me he/she became a troll, living in a computer instead of living in the real world.
This guy/girl has a lot of fun reading our responses, the more differences the better for him/her, but I really doubt he or she will ever own and/or train any dog of any breed in any venue in his/her whole life - these questions are not asked for knowledge but for personal entertainment.

the way i see it, 2 things have to happen:

• we need to go back to breeding strictly for working ability.
• we need to test that ability effectively & honestly.

breeding for true working ability would eliminate, by natural selection, all dogs with physical & temperament flaws.
a real test of working ability would not be something that could be trained to pass.

i am not one to fall back on max v stephanitz, but there is a reason for his wanting to preserve the shepherd as a
true working dog.  that selection process would ensure that the dogs remain mentally and physically sound.  we
can certainly see what focus on showing & sport for personal gain has done to the breed.

the 2 things that i say have to happen;  won't happen.  i'm just saying it like i see it.
pjp

Right on! Ziegenfarm @ " a real test of working ability would not be something that could be trained to pass."

When I did the BH's on my three HOT schH dogs, I NEVER practiced any thing in the temperament test. In fact, I didn't even take it into consideration. When I got to the trial, I had no clue what the temperament test entailed and just followed the judges instructions. And all three past, no problem. In fact, none of them had ever seen a bicycle in their short lives ( I mean young lives), or had a truck door open, with a stranger stepping out to shake hands. I thought to myself, this is a temperament test? What's the big deal?

The videos I posted a while back of Nelson and Otto on the bite suit was utterly unrehearsed. Neither dog had ever even seen a bite suit, let alone a person wearing one.
If a dog is being tested on what it's been trained to do for a job, that's one thing. But a "test" for a dog's breedworthyness shouldn't be trained for.

 I'd like to see the day when a CDX title meant every bit as much as a conformation championship, or BIS ribbon.

Yep, Ziegenfarm, not going to happen either, more's the pity!

Another example I will use (probably at the chagrin of many here), is my dog, Eric, who I posted about being able to catch the particular goat I needed caught from a herd, without injury to the goat ( thread about calm grips ). I didn't "train" him how to catch without damage to the goat, and I didn't "train" him to pick the right goat. He just happens to have the innate ability to work WITH me and the BREED INSTINCT to catch without injuring the livestock. How much more GERMAN SHEPHERDISH can a dog be?
BTW, he's also very territorial, but safe around kids, extremely bidable ( demonstrated by my example about him on other thread).

Before trying to determine the traits needed for a "real GSD", it might be helpful to define what that means? What is a great working dog? 

I guess I know as many ASL breeders as anyone here, so I feel as if I am qualified to say that there are a select few who do consider things other than what  will win in the ring. When they breed a litter or have a dog they offer at stud, there is normally very little interest from the die hard ASL people.