German rules for German Shepherds - Page 3

I started this thread because people on this board currently discussed ( like many times before ) about breeding dogs without
- health checks
- trials
- show results
Members are blamed for breeding their unproven dogs openly and loud - but on the other hand almost nobody wants to do anything against the non existent rules,
There are no rules at all in your country - that said everybody is allowed to breed whatever he/she wants and I can´t blame anybody for breeding whatever he/she wants to breed.

The institutional controls may not have created better breeders, but at least the worst are out of breeding.
You can´t create a perfect world, there will always be a wide variation of lines within one breed, but on your side of the pond the huge majority is breeding for pets ( not even for good looking pets... )
In Germany like in the USA the German Shepherd is in the top 3 of the breeding statistics, but the " normal " German doesn´t buy a German Shepherd, if he wants to own a pet - the Americans do - the average owner in the USA doesn´t even know what this breed COULD be capable of, they still believe in RinTinTin.
The duty to train and title would change a lot in the minds of these people. A lot of them would stop breeding immediately, and some would start to learn.

But let´s stop thinking about trials and shows...
There is no reason not to make at least HD/ED x-rays mandatory before breeding.

Maybe its not so much a tight governing body, equivalent to
the SV, that we need - at least as an early 'step'.  Maybe its
an all-breed (A)KC that values canine health more than its
income and takes a real stand on BASIC HEALTH TESTS /
standards ?   I think the breeds are ok to police themselves
(through e.g. something like a Breed Council or other collective
structure of local clubs), given a level playing field, to ensure
that above that basic level, owners who want to breed have the
opportunities and requirement to use Surveys, AD, BH & titling
in one sport or another (does not have to be Schutzhund / IPO,
could be Trials, so a UDX could be accepted as equivalent if that
is what was democratically decided).  But if the main registering
body(/ies) were more careful about the stock being registered in
the first place,  it would help weed out some who just want to breed
any old dogs for profit and do not have the interests of the breed
at heart.  It would not be infallible, but it would 'show willing', as
compared to the current situation, and hopeful encourage a better
attitude among the majority of owners ?  Better than NOTHING ?

Samael, I´m not talking about a IPO = breedworthy  .
I´m talking about people forced to train and forced to learn about their own dogs, health testing them and breeding to the standard.
As a side note - your friends coming over here trying to buy " cheaper " than at home are always going to see the dogs the owners want to sell.
Did you ever ask why these dogs are sold? People do sell because they are looking for something else / better.
There are a lot of good dogs out there, but they are not for sale, or they are not " cheap "...
That´s the reason why Americans tend to buy our "old" ( 5+ years ) working dogs, they are affordable for them.
No, kidding, there will always be good and bad dogs, but the less bad = the more good ones.

I dont disagree with any problem anyone has stated and I definitely agree that there is a problem.

But when you have people buying unregistered doodle mutt puppies for 4500$ and up. how do you solve the issue. Ignorance on the consumers part is just that, ignorance. And there will always be salesman taking advantage of it. This has been a detriment to every breed IMO.

So how do you fix stupid? IMO educating one person at a time is the only way. having a select few to carrying on trying to do the right thing for better or worse.

And i understand people are going to get what people dont want. that is the way with any product. and they are testing young green dogs to bring back to train and sell. but that aside. Tell me a breeder whom doesnt keep back what it thinks is best. or makes sure it goes to a friend or top trainer. makes sense. that will always happen and does here too.


 

I agree with you that breeders and judges should have a training resume.....have said this many times much to the chagrin of others. I can remember when a German Imported dog was usually a good working prospect.......heck, I can remember when Americans produced very good GS in general. Aspects of the show world and money changed these things on both sides of the pond. Out of this came a sport industry comprised of people wanting to maintain the character and abilities. 
I think the breed has been corrupted to a great degree, and now breeders of little training or genetic knowledge USE institutional controls to sell dogs to an unknowing public all the time.....on a scale of 1 to 10, sure, 4 is higher than 2.....but should either be bench marks. I don't have an answer, except to say that I think that training, knowledge, and PURPOSE are far more important than any mandates.....when it come to breeding good dogs.

I´m with you, Gustav. but knowledge results out of training and experience - without training no knowledge - if people were forced to train and title, at least some knowledge would follow.
12 pm over here - good night!

No pedigrees = no big bucks = no reason for backyard breedings.

Susie, there are many, many, many, MANY people in America that really do not give a crap about pedigrees.  It's still hard to get people to accept/want to pay $1000 for a dog.  They paid $400 for a GSD "back in the day", what makes them worth $1000+ now?  That's the general American attitude.

The institutional controls may not have created better breeders, but at least the worst are out of breeding.

I totally disagree

I have to agree w/Xeph's experience. Lots of people just want that great old GSD temperament and as long as they're out there, there will be unscrupulous breeders who can make a ton of money essentially peddling poor quality dogs. Lots of "good" breeders will tell you that people who pay a lot of money for a GSD pup often don't even bother to send in the registration. They truly don't care, so not being able to register is not enough of a deterrent. Among the general public, there is a sentiment against "real" breeders and people would rather give a moron with a male and female $2600 for a Labradoodle than pay $1800 for a well-bred GSD pup out of titled and koer'd parents.  They want a "family dog" not a "working dog" even if the "working dog" IS the better dog for them, and they'll pay BIG for these pets.  It's just the way it is. 

And let's talk about the Labradoodle people for a minute.  People like to bring them up because ignorant people are doling out thousands for them.  HOWEVER, that is because many people are desperate for a "hypoallergenic" dog that ISN'T a poodle.  People pay the money out of desperation and stupid claims they believe.  Given the option to not have to get a "hypoallergenic" dog (which may not be hypoallergenic in the end, anyway), people would NOT pay that kind of money for a dog.

I'll add that I paid $250 for my best buddy back in 2004.  He is effing AMAZING.  Could not ask for a better dog.  I have another dog here that has now cost me a mint, and is quite frankly, a damn mess.  I have yet another dog here from a breeder...got him for free.  He is an excellent dog and is kicking major ass in his training.

On paper, one breeder looks better than another because they follow certain protocols.  In reality?  The breeder that doesn't always follow SV type protocols but KNOWS HER DOGS (and doesn't just breed willy nilly) has, in my opinion, the superior animals.