Finally....puppy pictures Aria/Filius - Page 4

That's an interesting breeding! I don't know anything about showlines, but if you are going to combine, that sounds like the way to do it.

I don't agree with breeding for the dilute colors, or breeding dilute dogs, but if it happens in a breeding, who cares?? If they can still work, are healthy, and have a good, stable temperament, who. frickin. cares. It'll be interesting to see them as adults.

I didn't know much about them either. I started researching after falling in love w/that dog, then decided to go ahead and use him and to hell with the "rules" that we don't mix. He and Aria didn't seem that ashamed of what they were doing. 

Never in my wildest dreams did I expect BLUE out of an outcross between a East & West WL dam and a WG & Polish SL sire............LOL. But they're really nice little pups and I'm honestly just fine with them. I keep getting these sympathy messages from people like I must be just devastated..........uh, no, not really. They're just pups who don't quite meet the standard. The only difference is I knew it the second they were born, whereas most people have a bunch of time and money invested before they realize their dog isn't to the standard for breeding, LOL! 

D, Qira is more charming...more like a regal Queen. Qira wouldn't lower herself to using force if her charms weren't sufficient. She'd know the problem resides with YOU and she needn't concern herself. Aria is more like a bitchier girl...like  one of those really pretty girls at a club that you just KNOW would beat you if you ticked her off...pretty and looks all sweet on the surface, but not above getting a bit nasty. LOL

" I keep getting these sympathy messages from people like I must be just devastated........."

I love it ! It´s no fun to find blues in the whelping box, but it´s worse not to talk about them, or to just let them "vanish".
Reasons to be devastated:

The puppies are sick
crippled
Mom died during birth
no milk

These pups look healthy and fine - some of them no "breeding prospects" , so what?
A lot of German Shepherds are not breedworthy, but
A LOT OF BREEDERS WON`T TELL YOU THE TRUTH!

So what does "blue" mean technically?  Is it dilution of black, and is liver the same dilution but to a greater extent?

 
Blue is technically the D locus (dd) Blue
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_(dog)

D (dilute) locus

The alleles at the D locus (the melanophilin gene or MLPH) are related to the dilution of eumelanin and/or phaeomelanin and determine the intensity of pigmentation. There are two known alleles:

• D = Not Diluted
• d = Diluted (Black becomes grey or blue; brown becomes light tan or "Isabella")

D is dominant to d. Homozygosity of d is sometimes accompanied by hair loss and recurrent skin inflammation, a condition referred to as either color dilution alopecia (CDA) or black hair follicular dysplasia (BHFD) depending upon the breed of dog.^[7]

The Liver is on another locus, B (Brown) This is liver/Tan. (bb Liver)

B (brown) locus

The alleles at the B locus are related to the production of tyrosinase related protein 1 (TYRP1) and determine the degree to which an animal expresses tyrosinase, an enzyme related to the production of melanin, in its coat and skin (including the nose and paw pads). There are two known alleles that can occur at the B locus:

• B = Black
• b = Brown (includes several alleles - b^s, b^d and b^c)

B is dominant to b. An animal that has at least one copy of the B allele will have a black nose, paw pads and eye rims while an animal that is homozygous for any of the b alleles will have a liver nose, paw pads and eye rims.

THIS DOG is BOTH Liver & BLUE (dd & bb)


For all dog breeds these particular genes are the same, But they call them different things sometimes, Like Liver Labs & Cockers being called Chocolate. Most blues are called blues. Some people are adding nomenclature like Bb Dd to pedigrees already to show carriers of specific recessives like blue/liver/solid a black as well as the carrier and non carrier designations for health stuff such as ataxia, PRA and or DM and so on. Very fun stuff. Some pedigree programs now sell a specific genetic section, and it tracks all of these things for you. 

Normal Black color, but a Blue Carrier Dd (d Blue Carrier)

http://www.generatio.de/index.php/de/informationen/lexikon/glossaries

Very informative website, although discussable in some points.
Sorry, the "lexikon" in German only.

(GSD Lineage Edit) Added google English translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.generatio.de%2Findex.php%2Fde%2Finformationen%2Flexikon%2Fglossaries&act=url

Very interesting, thanks!!

You can test the normal Black/Red puppies to see if any are carriers. Statistically the litter would be 1/4th blue, 1/4th non carrier, and 1/2 carriers.

Blue Canine Coat color test.
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/dog/dilute.php
Results from the DILUTE test are reported as:

D/D Full color, no dilute gene present

D/d Full color, carries 1 copy of the dilute gene

d/d Dilute, 2 copies of the dilute gene

Reference:

Drögemüller C, U. Philipp, B. Haase, A-R Günzel-Apel & T Leeb. A noncoding melanophilin gene (MLPH) SNP at the splice donor of exon 1 represents a candidate causal mutation for coat color dilution in dogs. Journal of Heredity 98(5):468-473 (2007

Update:Do not swab nursing puppies, they will have the cells of the mother in their mouth.
http://www.vetnostic.com/collection.html

Jenni
Congratulations on your beautiful healthy pups. Even more on your attitude. I had a bunch of stuff happen to me this year and it has changed me in a strange way. It's very odd but it's like it's made me be able to see the 'real' people in this breed. For me you are one of them. I probably sound like a madwoman, I probably am., but I know what I mean LOL. 
They are beautiful pups regardless of coat/colour, bred for health, temperament. and to be a good all round GSD, Colour is the least consideration it doesn't mean they aren't great GSDs. For someone who wants a really good dog to work with, these could be a fantastic prospect.  Looking forward to seeing their progress.
 

WOW; thank you for sharing this info.  Very informative.  So is the test a cheek swab or blood draw?  Not sure but if you do not want to produce this at least they offer the test to see if breeding stock are carriers.  Really admire all that work and info.  Thx  Nan