Where are Old style lines in America still available? - Page 2

 Molly...Sherry was in my state! But, I think they moved as their website hasn't been updated in like 4 years. I would consider the Sherry blood modern Kirschental.  But, I don't know enough about the bottom or when the shift to modern showdogs versus working dogs happened in their program.

Okay, I was wrong about Mary Adelman's lines being Lance free. I must be thinking of another breeder. What I like about Mary was her show dogs aren't extreme, and they all have working titles, a real rarity in the American show scene!

Lance of Fran-Jo marked the watershed in the American GSD. He was GV for 1967, the year Bodo v. Lierberg (German, Dutch AND Belgian Sieger) was imported to the States. Bodo was not very popular as a sire here...everyone wanted to breed to Lance, and later, to his sons. Lance's blood soon so thouroughly saturated American peidgrees that it is almost impossible to find an American dog without Lance or his sons in their pedigree many, many times. He has been blamed for everything from cryptorchidism to missing teeth.

Lance was a nice dog, but if the gene pool gets saturated with blood from a particular sire, problems are bound to surface, due to recessive genes coming to the surface.

1967 marked the year of the 'big split' between German bloodlines and American. The dogs are now so different that it would be all but impossible for a German dog to win in the American ring, and vica versa.

Did you read what she said about bite work?
I'm glad you have the book!

Smiley Said: I wonder why she chose GSL over GWL? 

Well, what I see on the bottom with the mother line is consistently strong herding talent from Xiewa to Amie to Winnie to Fenga, all BLH Siegerins. The BLH is the national German HGH competition. Sherry has an HGH title, but the HGH Sieger is actually a conformation title. Also, I don't think Von Mathausen ever had Sherry, just Amigos. They are in NC. I think your best bet would be to talk to his owner though - he is HOT titled.

Smiley, I recall reading somewhere that one of the owners of Covy-Tucker Hill said, "In order to succeed at our kennel, a dog has to be extreme at both ends!"

Not my type of dog at all...

I have contacted a retired CKC judge I know about this thread, and hope he will pop in here with his decades of knowledge...

Sun...Carmspack looks good and Valiantdale interesting...thanks! 

I have a personal problem with some of the German showline dogs. I love their heads, color, and bone but I can't stand their toplines or the way their front legs are not set on at the corners- two traits the ASL dogs have nailed. Most top ASL dogs seem to have excellent toplines (no roach or any curve at all) and their front leg placement is not set way, way back under chest like most GSL dogs. It's just a couple of personal pet peeves I have that are more my own psychological issue...sorry!!!

 

smiley wrote: " But, I will admit, to having limited experience with the classic old american bloodlines where they mixed with early german imports. It seems the dogs were a good mix of both groups from the ones I see in books."
What are "old American bloodlines" ? At what point did a German bloodline become an American bloodline?
Please, don´t misunderstand me. I really want to know here is the cut, nothing else.

Another problem:
A lot of people still are thinking that the "old" German Shepherds were the better dogs healthwise - this is not true.
HD, Spondilosis, missing testicles, faulty teeth, have been a big problem in the past, a lot of dogs were shot ... but before they were killed a lot of them already had been bred.
Why do you think, did breeders start to x-ray their dogs, as soon as it was possible for John Doe ?!?
A huge amount of the "early" German Shepherds did have major faults - in former times they "vanished" if the fault was visible, in case of HD and others they were bred until the defect became visible ( 4 - 7 years old ) - too late.
Temperament: Most of the "early" German Shepherds you wouldn´t like to own - either fearful or sharp - the "sharp" ones good enough for police and border patrol - the "normal" dogs good for Schutzhund - almost no German Shepherd "pets" during the time 1900 - 1960 - sorry, but there was no RinTinTin...

Today we do have different problems ( structure, relatively new ED ) but the German Shepherd itself became better, believe it or not.
 

I'm not partial to any particular bloodline, if the dog can work it can work. The mother line in Amigos is strong, and it seemed that you were asking for that? I think he has pretty moderate conformation, I don't mind how he looks. I like the top left photo here more than his PDB photo, and I like the photo right below it as well.  http://www.mathausen.com/html/body_amigos.html

GSD Lineage..I will have to go back and see what she says!!! *wink*

Molly...no, Sherry was bought by Karen who owns Traumhof german shepherds in New England. I know Sue Sullivan bred one of her Dalls Bred herding bitches to him but I don't know how they turned out. The Traumhof website hasn't been updated for 4 years so don't know what is going on now.....

Sun...thanks for the info. on Lance and the state of bloodlines back then.  Of course, the Covy Tuckler Hill comment you mentioned just horrifies me..yikes!!! Hope the CKC judge chimes in!!

Does anyone know which early American bloodlines were successfully worked in bitework?
 

Susie...... I am not sure either about the cut. I was hoping to find some breeders who have been breeding for decades with American bloodlines and have culled ending  up with a super healthy, balanced, athletic, and versatile bloodline (without selling out to get show success-either american or german).  The funny thing is it seems people judge success of a bloodline based on their show record but I think it's the show record and pursuit of a ribbon that ruins the bloodline. So, go figure!! I guess I want to find a breeder who produces crappy show dogs that are healthy, versatile, and athletic with generations of sound breeding behind them without being influenced by fads!!