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by susie on 26 March 2014 - 19:03
Just read your last post - sorry
The split began in the mid sixties with the L-litter Wienerau / Walter Martin, president during that time Dr Rummel, the first time the "red" color came up in a German Shepherd.
Everything else is history - some people followed the "new" outlook, others remained within the working abilities.
The split began in the mid sixties with the L-litter Wienerau / Walter Martin, president during that time Dr Rummel, the first time the "red" color came up in a German Shepherd.
Everything else is history - some people followed the "new" outlook, others remained within the working abilities.
by susie on 26 March 2014 - 20:03
Sun, I´m waiting for the "hardcover" of this book, I wonder how many people are going to sue Mr Engel because of plain and simple historical faults 
by Sunsilver on 26 March 2014 - 20:03
Susie, he may have some of the details wrong, but I've heard about the Martin brothers from enough people to know they were the ones primarily responsible for the split, and the subsequent deterioration in working ability.
If I (and the numerous people whose posts or articles I've read) have got it all wrong, please let me know. You are the one with an SV membership, and the first-hand knowledge and information.
If I (and the numerous people whose posts or articles I've read) have got it all wrong, please let me know. You are the one with an SV membership, and the first-hand knowledge and information.
by susie on 26 March 2014 - 20:03
Think logical - Hermann Martin became President in 1982 (!) He died in 1996, but the dogs born years after his death (!) still are his fault???
Walter Martin never was someting "official" within SV.
Dr Rummel "made" these dogs, like it or not, and 3/4 of the Germans liked them, too, used the studs and linebred to them.
The Americans during that time were willing to pay a fortune for these dogs ( they still are...)
but neither Walter nor Hermann Martin did have the power to influence the ratings of the sixties and the seventies.
They were great in marketing, they had outstanding peronalities, but that´s it.
Don´t understand me wrong, these guys had a lot of influence later on, but in the beginning there was somebody else.
Walter Martin never was someting "official" within SV.
Dr Rummel "made" these dogs, like it or not, and 3/4 of the Germans liked them, too, used the studs and linebred to them.
The Americans during that time were willing to pay a fortune for these dogs ( they still are...)
but neither Walter nor Hermann Martin did have the power to influence the ratings of the sixties and the seventies.
They were great in marketing, they had outstanding peronalities, but that´s it.
Don´t understand me wrong, these guys had a lot of influence later on, but in the beginning there was somebody else.
by Sunsilver on 26 March 2014 - 20:03
I am sure a lot of politics was involved.
by susie on 26 March 2014 - 20:03
Not that much politics, but money and personal taste.
Where did you find "Rummel" on the link you posted? did I miss it?
Where did you find "Rummel" on the link you posted? did I miss it?
by kitkat3478 on 26 March 2014 - 21:03
Thank you susie, it irks me to no end when I see poster after poster blaming the Martins and the Weinerau/Arminius dogs for the downfall of the breed.
Where would the German Shepherd be without them, really.
Where would the German Shepherd be without them, really.
by susie on 26 March 2014 - 21:03
Don´t misunderstand me, Kitkat, I have been no friend of the "Martin" time - too much conformation, too much color, the helperwork and the results on the Siegerschau sometimes ridiculous - but most of the people followed, they simply liked the "new" style. Combined with the new training methods dogs easy to train and easy to sell.
I simply don´t like blaming two breeders for the outcome of a whole breed - that´s unfair and that´s simply not true. Nobody was forced to follow the Arminius or the Wienerau ideal.
I simply don´t like blaming two breeders for the outcome of a whole breed - that´s unfair and that´s simply not true. Nobody was forced to follow the Arminius or the Wienerau ideal.
by Sunsilver on 26 March 2014 - 21:03
Susie, I'm wondering that myself! 
Must have been some other article I read while searching for info on the Martins. OOPS!
Must have been some other article I read while searching for info on the Martins. OOPS!by susie on 26 March 2014 - 23:03
No problem
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