Where are Old style lines in America still available? - Page 3

Are there any current ASL breeders whose dogs have ben worked successfully in bitework? 

I have a new appreciation for the traits that bitework reveals after having succesfully worked my own bitch. The courage, fight, balanced nerves to listen to commands in the heat of aggression, and her ability to handle stick/whip/verbal pressure sure did tell me things that I never would have known without the bitework!!

If the GS is better today, and it is a working dog, then logical thinking would have the dog as still the go to dog in working/service endeavors, whether it is guide dog work, service work, herding, or LE/Military work as it's legacy was derived from. Not saying the dog is better or worse today, just saying that I think the judgement of this, must be in application of what it was made to do. It's up to everyone to assess the reality of our breed as functional in vocation, as opposed to excellent in staged events. Jmo

Good point Gustav.  Does anyone know if there were more GSDs in military, service dog programs; and herding events than there is now?  If so, why?

The GSDCA published an awesome article in the March 2014 Review called the "Power of Protection" by Carisssa Kuehn of GermanWatchdogs.com. In the article, she discusses, " Why would the breeding of German Shepherd Dogs need a sport that includes a protection phase?". "What does protection reveal that is any different from these other working titles?".  It's a great read!!

If you search the forum, you'll find a lot of previous discussions on that very topic.

I guess I want to find a breeder who produces crappy show dogs that are healthy, versatile, and athletic with generations of sound breeding behind them without being influenced by fads!! 

[sigh!] Good luck with that! 

Gustav, I know we think different in this case, but honestly -
up to the eighties police and border patrol bought dogs with MAJOR nerve issues - the dogs had to be sharp, nothing else. They didn´t care about obedience that much
In the eighties police started to teach a lot of dogs for drug detection ( now they didn´t need the sharp dogs any more, but prey driven dogs...)
Some years later they started to ask for "dual purpose" dogs, and society (!!!) asked for well mannered, well educated police dogs, people became afraid of the "man eaters".
During the same time German breeders became rich with black and red, over-angulated dogs, sold for huge amounts of money to the States, Italia, and now to Asia...
The German Shepherd became to heavy, too big, too over angulated....
The Malinois, more agil, absolutely prey driven, way cheaper ( because people overseas still wanted the "German Shepherd" ) became first choice for police - easy to train, cheap to buy.
People over here are pretty aware of the problems, but after all, it´s about money and market - as long as Americans and Asians are willing to pay a fortune for this kind of dog, there will be breeders following this route.
 

Amen Suzy, amen. Malinois has always been my breed and as i read threads here, i wonder, if you want a dog to work, in any endeavor, be it police or military or serious sport, just buy a malinois and have fun.
Cheaper, more durable, no need to argue about papers and organizations and registries, just a pure working dog.
There will never be one that will cost as much as a GSD, thankfully, nor one that looks as good, but, its THE premier working dog out there today for many reasons.

Hired, I´ll always own a German Shepherd, the working line Malinois drive me crazy, and the show line Mals drive me nuts!
But I don´t have a problem in saying they are good dogs for the job they are asked to do.
As long as there are still German Shepherds of the kind I like, and I know where to find them, there still is hope.
To look the other way doesn´t help.
A lot of breeders over here already changed their mind, maybe it´s not too late.

Nothing has changed in the GSD as a breed .. still all kinds, all shapes, all temperaments, and all different drives available for the trainer or owner.  After the mid 80's the training methods changed and for the better.  After the late 90's the remaining "old school" training idiots who though Koehler and the torture methods used by some trainers were just fine found themselves in the minority both as competitors and trainers.  The torture method trainers could not compete with the modern trainers because less than 1 in 100 dogs could bear the pain and stupid training techniques used by the "old school" trainers.  The dogs that could bear the pain and torture were special and different dogs but not better dogs for competition, police, or other jobs.  So now from time to time we hear about the old school training and the old school dogs which is just a load of bull sh*t.  The dogs today are just fine and like cars you have a variety of styles, horsepower and handling options to choose from.