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by Paul Garrison on 27 March 2014 - 00:03
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=9538-silvo-vom-kirschental
This was my dog and he was all prey, all show lines would bring people to their feet on his courage test, and I guaranty he would not protect himself, much less me. Sch 3, V15. Ballanced? Not at all, he was all prey. But a really fun dog.
This was my dog and he was all prey, all show lines would bring people to their feet on his courage test, and I guaranty he would not protect himself, much less me. Sch 3, V15. Ballanced? Not at all, he was all prey. But a really fun dog.
by Paul Garrison on 27 March 2014 - 01:03
" it irks me to no end when I see poster after poster blaming the Martins and the Weinerau/Arminius dogs for the downfall of the breed.
Where would the German Shepherd be without them, really.
My answer: Still a working breed.
Where would the German Shepherd be without them, really.
My answer: Still a working breed.
by vonissk on 27 March 2014 - 01:03
Thank you Paul and I agree. Yep I may be the mutt breeder of the year but never never will I add any showlines into my program--an Am dog that has maybe 1/4 good showlines but not all the same old names etc etc. I don't like them and I ,IMO, yes think the Martains were the downfall. And again IMO it was all for the alimight dollar bill.
by kitkat3478 on 27 March 2014 - 09:03
Von, what exactly are your lines, if not mixed with showlines? I think Covey Tucker Hill and Lance of Fran Jo were considered "showline" of the American persuasion.And them old Trommel lines, what do you think they are made up of? Aside from the DDR dogs that were brought in to improve the dogs, there is , get ready Quanto V Weinerau (yikes) and a whole lot of Lance of FranJo.
Paul, I have showline dogs that will seriously put a hurtin on sn intruder, and I do mezn seriously. My dogs don't care about no flying trot , and if they were gojng to bite, they certaily ain't looking for no sleeve to grab.
But they are not being trained for that. My dogs live in the real world, doing an honest days work.
I live alone, on the top of the mt., on a dirt road. I can go to sleep at night, leave all my doors and windows open and not worry about a thing. My grandkids can play in the yard without worry someone might snag them.
At the end of the day, thats what counts.
How many times do we read about people griping, even their working line dogs, won't bite without a sleeve. Whats the point of "the protection phase" Iif you don't think your dog will protect.
There are so many fantastic dogs that came through after the martin brothers, and anykne that denies that is, well......
What each breeder chose to do with them dogs, was on them.
Paul, I have showline dogs that will seriously put a hurtin on sn intruder, and I do mezn seriously. My dogs don't care about no flying trot , and if they were gojng to bite, they certaily ain't looking for no sleeve to grab.
But they are not being trained for that. My dogs live in the real world, doing an honest days work.
I live alone, on the top of the mt., on a dirt road. I can go to sleep at night, leave all my doors and windows open and not worry about a thing. My grandkids can play in the yard without worry someone might snag them.
At the end of the day, thats what counts.
How many times do we read about people griping, even their working line dogs, won't bite without a sleeve. Whats the point of "the protection phase" Iif you don't think your dog will protect.
There are so many fantastic dogs that came through after the martin brothers, and anykne that denies that is, well......
What each breeder chose to do with them dogs, was on them.
by Paul Garrison on 27 March 2014 - 11:03
Kitkat
Not talking about any one persons dogs but the breed as a whole has goes to "working hell in a handbag". If you take the breed in the two types of WL vs.SL it would be an overwhelming difference in the ability to do real protection in the direction of the WL dogs. This is not to say there are not good working SL dogs but not many as a whole. The DDR had it right with their SL-WL mixed together to make a complete dog. But most of the sport WGWL of the day are just "sport dogs" . But IPO is still not done with any ol dog in 15 min. in one's back yard.
Not talking about any one persons dogs but the breed as a whole has goes to "working hell in a handbag". If you take the breed in the two types of WL vs.SL it would be an overwhelming difference in the ability to do real protection in the direction of the WL dogs. This is not to say there are not good working SL dogs but not many as a whole. The DDR had it right with their SL-WL mixed together to make a complete dog. But most of the sport WGWL of the day are just "sport dogs" . But IPO is still not done with any ol dog in 15 min. in one's back yard.
by kitkat3478 on 27 March 2014 - 11:03
Paul, I know you were not speaking of any one dog in particular, believe me, I understand that. I love 'some' of the showline dogs, but there are many, I wouldn't take if they were offered for free.
It is the breeders involved in the breed TODAY, that are iinfluencing the direction the breed is heading. There are reasons I added the pure DDR dogs and pure working lines into my plans.
As I just wrote on another thread, I recently seen a website of full czech 'working dogs' that made me want to cry.WTF are people doing to these dogs? They looked like they couldn't herd a flock of geese, let alone a flock of sheep!
I have a great deal of admiration for the czech dogs, they were buikt bigger, stronger'war dogs', dogs with Iintimidating appeal. These new and improved dogs were, to say the least, pathetic.
I care nothing about the color of a dog, I wish m8re breeders would take pride in every dog they produced, not just those that make the podium.
To many put all the blame on the Martins, there are so many lines that carry their dogs in them, they obviously did something right.
Each breeder and kennel after them needs to be accountable for their own crap! Thats all
It is the breeders involved in the breed TODAY, that are iinfluencing the direction the breed is heading. There are reasons I added the pure DDR dogs and pure working lines into my plans.
As I just wrote on another thread, I recently seen a website of full czech 'working dogs' that made me want to cry.WTF are people doing to these dogs? They looked like they couldn't herd a flock of geese, let alone a flock of sheep!
I have a great deal of admiration for the czech dogs, they were buikt bigger, stronger'war dogs', dogs with Iintimidating appeal. These new and improved dogs were, to say the least, pathetic.
I care nothing about the color of a dog, I wish m8re breeders would take pride in every dog they produced, not just those that make the podium.
To many put all the blame on the Martins, there are so many lines that carry their dogs in them, they obviously did something right.
Each breeder and kennel after them needs to be accountable for their own crap! Thats all
by vk4gsd on 27 March 2014 - 11:03
What is the purpose of a purpose bred show dog...to be showed?
by Paul Garrison on 27 March 2014 - 11:03
vk4
Entertainment, fun, hobby, desire ect. ect.
What is the purpose of a hot rod
What is the purpose of a yard
It is all in what one wants.
Entertainment, fun, hobby, desire ect. ect.
What is the purpose of a hot rod
What is the purpose of a yard
It is all in what one wants.
by vk4gsd on 27 March 2014 - 12:03
Gotcha, just sounds funny when you say it out loud or think of the concept, seriously think about it. Historically man utilised dogs for a purpose....to trot in a circle and argue over which dog looks the best is a purpose!!!
We are talking a multi million dollar international industry with sophisticated institutions and supporting infrastructure.
the more you think about the basic concept you can't help but think fark.
I must be to close to the land and working class to be able to understand all that goes into it for what is fundamentally i trivial kinda pointless way to amuse yrself...my problem nobody else's.
We are talking a multi million dollar international industry with sophisticated institutions and supporting infrastructure.
the more you think about the basic concept you can't help but think fark.
I must be to close to the land and working class to be able to understand all that goes into it for what is fundamentally i trivial kinda pointless way to amuse yrself...my problem nobody else's.
by kitkat3478 on 27 March 2014 - 12:03
Some of the "show dogs" have been bought and sold for more money than some people will see in their lives.
Not bad for a few "trots" around the ring....
Again, he who laughs last
Not bad for a few "trots" around the ring....
Again, he who laughs last
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