Where are Old style lines in America still available? - Page 31

In most developed countries dogs are a luxury and for personal amusement, companionship. Owners have to invent or create things to do with them such as; biting sports, agility, hunting trials for springers, pointers, retrievers, terriers. Even herding is mostly for entertainment for the humans and have created big get togethers called trials (shows) for fun and bragging rights. Obedience has been turned into entertainment and held in conjunction with conformation shows......for entertainment and something to do with their dogs.
The days of the majority of dogs having real jobs in modern civilization have gone with the dodo.

First of all there is very very little Weinearu blood behind the Trommel dogs and it goes pretty far back. So if would have very little influence on not only today but also the lines the Trommel dogs were built on. They were mostly built on the old Ger and Am lines that were popular at the time. Secondly every Am dog doesn't have Lance behind it. The other one is Yoncalla's Mike. A lot of people disliked him. I have talked to people that knew him and they said he was a dog you loved or hated. We have a lot more Mike behind our dogs than Lance. And for my mutts, they are working lines (alternative--not the popular ones that are in every working pedigree) American and DDR.
Joan excellent post. I will say though anytime I can place a puppy in a home where they are going to do ScH or OB I am always happy. At least they're doing SOMETHING with them rather than expect them to be a protective pet.
 

And that's the truth, Joan!  I sometimes think of helping to  save the real working dogs I knew as a child, the farm collies, which are nearly an extinct breed. Then I stop and think, "Who am I kidding?"

Those dogs need a JOB, and though I have 2 acres of land here, I am not allowed to keep even a chicken, only dogs!  The only time they'd see a sheep woud be if I drove over to Loretto Kennels, where GSD breeder Morris Bartucci keeps a small herd, just so he can test dogs on them and offer herding instinct tests!

The other job the farm collie had was protecting the property. Dogs were allowed to run loose on the farm in those days, but today, AC would probably step in, and fine me, or the dog would be killed on the busy paved road that runs in front of my place, and gets heavy commuter traffic, as well as 18 wheelers and huge farm vehicles. Oh, and I also have 400 acres of bush behind me, which is home to a pack of coyotes, another thing that would put a dog in danger!

Correct, Vonissk, not every ASL pedigree has Lance or Mike. My female, 75% ASL's, does not in 7 generations and after 4 generations who really cares which dogs are back there anyway unless they are tightly bred - fat chance of that in this breed. I wish people would do some research before making all these sweeping statements, most of which are incorrect. No one will turn into a pillar of salt if they look at an ASL pedigree before making comments; they just might learn something mind boggling like they too go back to the same dogs as every purebred GSD alive today, - imagine that. The ASL, Czech dogs, GWL's, GSL's all distantly related Yikes!! All are testimonies to the power of selective breedings made by men who all thought they knew what they were doing; nothing more, nothing less.

Sunsilver et al, if you could read the GSDCA monthly "The Review"  you might be impressed to see how many GSD's of all lines are actually participating in and titling in "working" venues.....in one month - tracking (11) , tracking excellent (4), herding tested (9), pre-trial tested (6), herding started (6), 1 Herding Champion, Herding Intermediate, Herding Excellent, 30 CD, 9 CDX, 5 UD, 4 UDX, and so on.

Some are AKC CH,  some OTCH, some GCH with familiar to PDB members kennel names like Alta Tollhaus. Wildhaus, Jendhi, Nocturne, Majestic, Waldenhaus, Debrut, Kismet, Blackthorn, Meerhout, Kenlyn, Guiding Eyes, von der Polizei, Binderhaus, Eurosportu, Wolfstraum, Eichenluft, etc. This is barely scratching the surface. I'm sure some of these dogs also have Sch/IPO titles, but those titles are not included. Many owners are doing what they can to work with their dogs and prove them; they are walking the walk.  An AKC herding isn't an HGH, but it's something and a lot more than many other breeders and owners do with their dogs.

But all in all a dog is no better then then value he gives to his owner. If my dogs can not be my home protector they havee no value to me at all. I do not care what title they have. This is not limited to protection, it is whatever task you have for your animal. BUT breeding is a whole other matter.

Lots of buts in the dog world, Paul. I can make an arguement for or against every breeding, dog, title if I choose to. If my dogs can't live inside with me and protect my house and sleep next to me, they have no value to me. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate dogs that live other types of lives and serve their owners in different ways. I like to recognize breeders and owners for job well done in any and all venues. At least the dogs I mentioned above dogs are not wasting away in a kennel. Who am I to tell anyone that their reasons for breeding GSD's is not valid?

Thanks again, everyone, for the constructive discussion!!! I appreciate people taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences!!

Sarah

Thank you Blitzen. I also haved to say I KNOW what is in the pedigrees of the dogs we deal with and as I have said many times you can know what Joe Blow down the street said but until you KNOW the dogs in the pedigrees--I mean KNOW them as in putting your hands on them and/or seeing them work unless it is your mentor or someone very close, the rest is just he said she said. And then I will throw this out for what it's worth. If you continue to do nothing but outcross you will never have consistency. IMO a consistent line is much more productive--depending of course on what you are breeding for and you have all your ducks in a row than just contiuously outcrossing flavor of the month dogs.
Another thing I want to add about what you said about the Review--some of you folks might be very surprised at what they can do and as far as the ski slope "type" having such bad hips--read the Review and see how many excellents there are....Cause there's a lot of Am dogs that are consistently producing Excellents.
I'm not here to gop into the old arguement--I believe the old lines were better--and I have been fortunate to find what I did in this day and age. The boy I have here now out of these lines is 5 months old and more drivy then out to even be legal--much less in an Am. SL--poor little fucked up things..........NOT--it's out there.
I also happen to know where some frozen sperm is out of a grandson of a great working dog that produced and produced. Again no names. I thought about it and I decided against it because I didn't like the conformation--again too muich inconsistency--and I didn't like the hips that was produced. I know where other old lines are but just cause the lines are old doesn't mean you are going to strike gold--you have to study those pedigrees, conformation before and after and hips before and after. Some think I'm crazy and some think I haven't a clue. Whatever--I know when it is all said and done 10 years from now I will still have my lines and I will still have good dogs................
 

Vonissk,  the ASL puppies are raised entirely different that the WL's dogs too, don't you think? How many times have you heard ASL breeders say something like - I didn't keep that puppy because he/she just wouldn't stop going after our ankles and tugging on anything it could get hold of? It's a different mind set - GSD's should never bite unless their owners are under attack and even then they are not so sure it's a good thing. They might get "reported" to AKC for having an aggressive dog.

I'm not dumb enough to think I can convince any of the died in the wool WL people here that ASL's or GSL's have much to contribute to the breed or vice versa.  Most of the ASL people don't think that WL's are worth much either; their breed boards and private conversations are a lot like the ones we have here . We have met the enemy and it is us.....................