Where are Old style lines in America still available? - Page 4

Smiley, I really do feel for you. I, too, was once hoping to find what you are looking for. It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, because too many generations have gone by since the split. More than 20 years ago, the AKC  handed down a ruling forbidding any member club from involvement or association with any dog bite sports. That made sure the American GSD would continue to drift away from the German line dogs. And there was also no requirement for GSDCA dogs to have any sort of working titles. Those were only for the dogs that couldn't make it in the show ring.

IMO, there is only one way to restore the American GSD's ability to do real work. That's to infuse German blood back into the lines.

My CKC contact, Gordon Garett, really likes this dog:  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=570858-pastor-burgos  and said that, not surprisingnly, he is producing dogs that can really work. He is owned by CKC president, Bill Randall.

Every so often, I hear of something that gives me some hope for the American dogs. 

I tried going this route, too, but was not successful. My German/American line female turned out to have faded pigment, a not-so-great front end, and a mildly dysplasitc hip. She's got great temperament, though, and I hope to put an IPO1 on her.

 

"real work" ??  Is that IPO, biting, what ?? .. don't use "work" as a code word for biting sports.  Hunters now don't kill game .. they bag it, capture it, harvest it, or anything but the K word kill.  Is that why the biting sports advocates switched to work as a politically correct word for biting.  A Great Pyrenees "actually works" guarding livestock but I have not seen many IPO dogs that do any real work.  Police dogs work but IPO dogs play.

No, first step is get the AKC to change standards away from this severe angulation.  That way people that show will be forced to change thier breeding practices.  Then in about 10 years those dogs would have be a minority.   At least the WGSL are still GSD at heart.

Bubbabooboo, in this case, 'work' means ANY type of performance title from any venue, whether Rally0, tracking, IPO/Schutzhund, agility etc. If you look at the pedigrees for the north American show dogs, you will see any titles other than conformation titles are usually lacking! Even temperament tests or CGC titles are few and far between.

Glad to hear work defined as such Sunsilver .. still the stock from the early American bloodlines were usually seconds from the German breeding programs.  Also pretty sure the offspring of the GSD imported from Europe before 1975 had little if any selection pressure based on "work" even as you defined it with the possible exception of some tracking.  Post WWII may have seen the best influx of GSD as Germany was poor and starving so they sent a lot of GSD (both good and bad) to the USA in exchange for the strong dollar against the very weak German Mark.  All the GSD alive today came from a handful of dogs picked as the foundation stock so it seems selection and breeding followed by more selection is what has shaped the GSD as a breed.  I'm pretty sure that with the GSD in the USA at this time we could select for any type of GSD the breeders and public wanted given time and support for GSD bred in the USA or N. America versus European bred GSD.  The so called "old style" still exists within the GSD gene pool as does white, blue, and every other variation of the GSD that has ever existed previously.  Someone has to select for them and someone has to buy them as pets or for other jobs.

There nothing written that tells these breeders to produce weak nerves, hunch backs or hock walkers. Greed...plain and simple is what dictates what gets thrown out there.
    Any breeder worth a shit cares more about the dogs they are producing than the dollar they can pocket.
AND, there ARE still some that do that.

If people are willing to buy crap somebody will sell it to them.  If memory serves me correctly the early GSD imported into the USA in the teens and 1920's were horrible quality according to some accounts and the GSD as a breed fell out of favor until Rin Tin Tin and other GSD dog actors made the breed popular again.  I expect the Chinese are getting a very expensive education in buying GSD from Germany and Europe as we speak because from accounts very recent they are strong buyers of the GSD and are preferred over N America as buyers for German and European bred GSD.  I breed very robust solid blacks and bicolors but some buyers want a "traditional" colored GSD as the SV show line is seen as being just that by some.  To each his own taste and choice.  I don't breed old style GSD or new style GSD, just my style GSD that pleases me be they black or brown, small or large.  I prefer diversity to uniform mediocrity or to some fashion trend or marketing scheme the SV promotes as the perfect GSD.  The SV is as much marketing organization as breeding .. a system that keeps the German GSD supply in check and the product uniform.  I prefer breeders who produce different kinds of GSD with different temperaments, sharp minds and sound bodies regardless of color or size.  I can choose for myself what I want in my kennel and in my breeding program. 

The DeBrut kennels you mentioned in your original post are still around, still breeding and very careful to keep the performance abilities of their dogs intact.  The DeBrut dogs are successful in top level herding, agility and obedience.  The dogs the breeder keeps are also conformation finished.

There are many Kirschental dogs around....

Cynthia Binder DVM
Binderhaus Shepherds

Sunsilver...will PM you later tonight....

 

Cynthia...you have exceptional dogs. Also, sending you a PM