How to determine GSD region of origin - Page 1

I have GSD Samson Scearce.
I can find Shepherd Harvey https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2608144-shepherd-harvey?_v=20170302041427
Sired by Muck Von Der Blue Haus https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=750319-muck-von-der-bleu-haus?_v=20181024194647
Dam is Autumn Storm Von Hobbs Haus https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2316216-autumn-storm-vom-hobbs-haus?_v=20160212022847

How do I determine the country or region of origin?

Thank you for your assistance

Debbie1056

The dog  Samson Scearce is registered with AKC American Kennel Club  USA

DN62051508 -Samson Scearce
(German Shepherd Dog)

Color:-Black & Tan

Sex/Whelp Date:-Male / MAR-18-2020

Shepherd Harvey is also registered with AKC in the USA

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2608144-shepherd-harvey?_v=20220104224953

Thank you. I have Samson's AKC Certified Pedigree. I am trying to figure out if his linage is West German Working, East German Show, etc. This is why I joined the Pedigree Database. Is there any way to determine this? I know Samson was born in the USA. From looking at his pedigree on the database, I think he would be a working GSD.

Thank you for your response to my initial question.

The German registry body has the initials SV in front of the dog's registration number. Most of Harvey's ancestors are German. East Germany no longer exists, but if you go far enough back you many see the letters DDR in front of a dog's registry number, which is the abbreviation for East Germany.

Are any of Samson's ancestors in the Pedigree Database? What are some of the names?

As for knowing if the German dogs are show or working lines, show lines are always black and red. Working lines can be black, black and tan, or sable. Other than that, you need to know the kennel names. Harvey's German ancestors are working line dogs, and there are some very good ones in his pedigree.

"show lines are always black and red. " not 100% correct they are mostly but you can get sables and bi, I myself owned a couple of bi's years ago.

there are also have sable and black showlines that are increasing at the moment, your dog is from AKC lines, further back West German working line

 

Thank you all for your input. From your information. I would say Samson Scearce lenage is a German working line GSD although the past several generations were American

One way to see just what the lines being bred were 'for', in any pedigree, is to become familiar with the kennels' names; e.g. there are many (West) German breeding kennels which are basically Show kennels - although the dogs have to be Korunged and that includes doing IGP (ex Shutzhund); other kennels specialise in more serious 'work' / competition, or in e.g. HGH (Herding). Dogs' qualifications and titles earned, given on the PDB pedigrees when recorded here (not all national Kennel Clubs are so helpful in displaying these) are frequently guidance to the activities of the sort of dogs which that kennel produces.

And you can ' surf '  a heck of a lot of pedigree records here on one site, to get a 'feel' for what various kennels produce; you don't need to have experience of individual dogs.

A complete absence of such info, or of Show Gradings (VA, V, Champion, etc etc) either, will often indicate that the breeder (more often NOT @ kennels in Germany, but those elsewhere, for instance the US ) is really only in the market for producing pet dogs - this isn't 100% effective but it is a starter in learning how to read pedigrees.

by Hundmutter on 29 April 2022 - 12:04

One way to see just what the lines being bred were 'for', in any pedigree, is to become familiar with the kennels' names; e.g. there are many (West) German breeding kennels which are basically Show kennels - although the dogs have to be Korunged and that includes doing IGP (ex Shutzhund); other kennels specialise in more serious 'work' / competition, or in e.g. HGH (Herding). Dogs' qualifications and titles earned, given on the PDB pedigrees when recorded here (not all national Kennel Clubs are so helpful in displaying these) are frequently guidance to the activities of the sort of dogs which that kennel produces.

And you can ' surf '  a heck of a lot of pedigree records here on one site, to get a 'feel' for what various kennels produce; you don't need to have experience of individual dogs.

A complete absence of such info, or of Show Gradings (VA, V, Champion, etc etc) either, will often indicate that the breeder (more often NOT @ kennels in Germany, but those elsewhere, for instance the US ) is really only in the market for producing pet dogs - this isn't 100% effective but it is a starter in learning how to read pedigrees.

+1000

  I like the way you explained this, Hundmutter.  Very easy to understand 

 

On the working line side, in the US, there can be a relative absence of titles if a breeder/facility is producing/selling GSD or Malinois specificlly to LE and/or military.  There may be working police/K9 certifications noted on pedigrees. Word of mouth in LE K9 will make or break a facility very quickly.  Issues with puppies or dogs, whether genetic, temperament, or training, can cause issues with military contracts, as well.  Prices,supply vs LE/military demand, contracts that have to be fulfilled, and buyer screening generally keep these dogs from being sold as pets.  Also some places simply do not provide pedigree information to the public, only to serious buyers.

Some breeders produce and sell puppies/dogs suitable for LE, military, and elite/serious protection work, sell to both LE and the public, and have extensive titling in breeding pedigrees. Some title their breeding stock to their highest potential, some title limited, especially females, to prove working ability, and some don't title sire/dam that have extensive ancestor titiling.  Cost of titling can be a consideration, but titles can influence puppy prices.  This could influence LE agency or LE K9 handler that may have a limited budget to look elsewhere, so there are trade-offs.

 

During covid pandemic, travel restrictions and/or opportunities for both show and working titling have been very unavailable or limited in many places, so with sire and dam, lack of titles or high titles, may or may not mean anything other than there was a pandemic.  Checking the titling of older and retired breeding stock and litters whelped during covid may give an indivcation.

 

Thanks, GSCat. And your additional info is very clear & helpful too.